Bloodplates... Can it Really be Justified?

I was thinking about something.
Getting a blood transfution.. thats wrong right? Oky and theres allot of scriptures supporting that.
So is giving blood at a bloodbank allowed for witnesses? No, its not allowed...
Oky so HERES MY QUESTION...
Witnesses are allowed to use blood plates... where does those blood plates come from?
Yes some come from plants, but the majority comes from other peoples blood
That means that witnesses are in fact profiting from other peoples sins.. Because those other people are going to lose ever lasting life because they donate blood.. but witnesses can use that blood?
How does that work?
Any answers would be apreciated...

Oky and theres allot of scriptures supporting that.

Can you name one? 

Welcome, btw!

=) Thank you!

Agggg not palatelets, i mean fragments. the things you get in anti venom etc

Agggg not palatelets, i mean fragments. the things you get in anti venom etc

Okay. You're talking about plasma proteins like immune globulins and clotting factors. I understand the question now.  JW's teach that the acceptance of these is a 'conscience matter' but the reality is that it's impossible to live in a developed country without accepting at least small amounts.  

If you accidently receive a puncture injury from a metal object (Like stepping on a rusty nail) you'll need a tetanus booster shot and it will probably contain tetanus immune globulin --a blood fraction.

JW's justify this by viewing blood fractions as not really blood. They've presented four separate rationales over the years for this and every one has been full of holes

(1) In September of 1958 "fractions" such as the diphtheria antitoxin were allowed as conscience permits on the basis that these 'do not nourish the body'.  However since no component of blood actually nourishes the body, this rationale if taken to its logical conclusion would have brought the whole doctrine crashing down.


(2) In June of 1982, the 1958 rationale for the allowance of fractions was replaced. The JW's attempted to divide blood into "major" and "minor" components, with the major ones forbidden and the minor ones allowed.  There were problems with this rationale also. The worst of these was that the divisions enforced did not consistently follow their own reasoning.  In other words the rationale applied only insofar as it supported JW policy.   For example, the only basis they ever offered for the major/minor division was raw percentage of blood volume for each respective component.   However platelets which comprises roughly 2/10ths of 1 percent of your blood volume were forbidden while albumin which comprises slightly more than 10 times as much (2.2%) was allowed.  Not one of the components of plasma was forbidden yet plasma as such (these components suspended in water) was forbidden. 


(3) In June of 1990 a third rationale was offered for the allowance of fractions. Blood components were now divided on the basis of transference across the placental barrier.  The same divisions remained. Like the other two, this rationale has problems also.

First of all, the argument is not technically sound.  In 1992 a female lab tech who had donated a blood specimen for analysis was found to have "Y" DNA circulating in her blood stream. Researchers were baffled until it was disclosed that she was 6 weeks pregnant. The source of the "Y" DNA was her unborn son.  Cells in the blood stream including fetal nucleated red blood cells, were crossing the placental barrier. Other studies detected erythroblasts, trophoblasts, granulocytes and lymphocytes.  Since then it has been demonstrated that a woman can still have fetal blood cells in her blood stream more than a decade after her last pregnancy.

(4) In October of 2000 JW's divided blood into 'primary' and 'secondary' components.  Primary components are forbidden. All Secondary components are allowed.  There are consistency problems with this rationale too.  Since this rationale allows any fraction of any primary component, it's tantamount to saying that it's okay to eat blood as long as it's cooked first, since the heat of cooking will rupture and fractionate the primary components.

Mrbunyrabit said,

"That means that witnesses are in fact profiting from other peoples sins.. Because those other people are going to lose ever lasting life because they donate blood.. but witnesses can use that blood?"

You make a good point here.  JWs are allowed to accept blood fractions (it's a conscience matter), and all blood fractions are derived from someone else's whole blood donations.  Witnesses can't give blood, but they can accept fractions from other people's blood.

"How does that work?"

It works for no other reason than the Watchtower Society says it works.  It is not Bible based.  It's one of many contradictions in the Watchtower belief system.

Welcome to the forum.  You have noticed an issue that seems to go right over the head of most JWs.

mrbunyrabit, welcome to the site!

TD (PhD or even MD as far as I am concerned), thank you for your concise and easy to follow explanation.

-Yan

Hello mrbunyrabit, welcome to the forum

Getting a blood transfution.. thats wrong right? Oky and theres allot of scriptures supporting that.

To understand why there are no scriptures that rule against having a blood trasfusion you may want to read this.

thank you guys, you gave me some mind openers..... I dont want to believe that they are wrong.... butttttt.... im finding it hard not to.....

(after i read the article) Now im finding it harder to believe their teachings.... Damn... And they are such nice people...

That means that witnesses are in fact profiting from other peoples sins.. Because those other people are going to lose ever lasting life because they donate blood.. but witnesses can use that blood?

aha! you are seeing past the smoke and mirrors and asking a sound, rational, logical question. You are spot on. How can we accept blood but not donate it? It is either a sin to not "spill blood on the ground" or it isn't, but here it's both!

your journey begins....

And they are such nice people...

That is true, most JWs are nice people, but the Watchtower Society itself is not nice, and it is the Society that you will be subject to from now on if you join them.  Keep asking questions when you notice an issue, and demand good, solid answers from them.  They like to put you off without providing good answers to the difficult topics.  Don't fall for it.

I remember going to a hospital in Chi-town where there was a seminar on non-blood surgery and the benefits of it. I enjoyed it at the time, but two things always struck me: It is a matter of one's own consious whether or not you would be willing to recycle your own blood by this machine cleaning it and flowing right back into your own body, all in one fell swoop. It would benefit those most who had a blood disease, I would imagine.

The second thing was that it could be ok to accept blood fractions, cuz well, we have come so far in science, etc. that they can derrive fractions from whole blood, and so a fraction would not necessarily be "taking in blood".

When it came time for the new medical directive aka "blood card" to be filled out and witnessed, with these"new understandings" I commented to my friends, who were eager to be a witness (Can I get a witness, brothers & sisters?), I stated that in no uncertain terms would I accept blood of any kind. They looked like a dear in headlights and said, but now, if it is ok with your consious, you CAN accept fractions. Are you sure you don't want that? I reasoned (or tried to), "if a fraction or anything else comes from primary, whole or whatever kind of blood, THEN IT IS STILL ACCEPTING BLOOD!" Well, not really, cuz...blah blah blah (I do love my friends, but they made as much sense to me as I probably did to them-NONE.)

"Well, what about the machine?" they asked, dismayed. ME: "So, we CANNOT donate or even SAVE OUR OWN blood, yet we can have a machine that continues to circulate and cleanse our blood outside our body, and then brings it back in again?" Yes! ME: "Huh? The blood is still TECHNICALLY outside your body." Them: "Well, not really, because the "machine" is just a facilitator." ME: "HUH? It is no difference in using that "advancement in technology" to store your own blood for later use, or using another "advancement in technology" called a blood transfusion." The "machine" isn't part of our natural bodies, so WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Ugg. They meant well. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I readily admit it, but all that techy, mumbo jumbo crap just seemed like even WTBTS powers that be, were looking for loopholes around their own blood issues.

I stuck to my guns, and then they looked at me all cock-eyed when the DPA came up and I wasn't on the bandwagon about some other new advancement in science vs. what a witness can or cannot accept, according to their own consious. WHATEVER! Maybe this explains why I am no longer in the "Truth" and they are. I still have my medical directive. It took a few years before I yanked it out of my wallet (when I carry one). It is now sitting in my car's ashtray. Every now and then I take a gander, if only to see my friends' signature. We had some GREAT times. It's just a pity all the way around.

AK MCGRATH said,

...WTBTS powers that be, were looking for loopholes around their own blood issues.

I think you are right about that.  One day in the distant future the whole blood issue will likely be gone, like the former bans on vaccination and transplants.  It seems the organization is in a state of transition now over blood.

In the future Witnesses will probably be in denial that the blood teachings of the past were actually part of the Watfchtower belief system.  Will they write it off to saying something like "Some had misunderstandings in those days, because the Society always said it was a conscience issue?"  We shall see.

"Some had misunderstandings in those days"  not understanding that the WT's murderous blood doctrine has no basis in scripture and no god has ever backed the teaching has led to the death of thousands.

All who support this organization are as guilty as those who supported the Nazi regime and its holocaust in WW2.

To understand why there are no scriptures that rule against having a blood trasfusion you may want to read this.

Cofty - A really well written article.  How have I failed to read Leviticus 17:15 all these years? (Don't answer that)

I just tried to show that scripture to my wife but she was too busy, she was going to watch CASUALTY. The irony.

George

Cofty - A really well written article.  How have I failed to read Leviticus 17:15 all these years?

Thanks. I know it sounds conceited but I honestly believe that article is bomb-proof. It assumes that the bible is authoritative and at the very least shows that there is enough doubt about the borg's interpretation of blood to make it impossible to risk your life over it.

hi friends,

Just a couple of thoughts...

1. There is no such thing as a whole blood transfusion except in dire emergencies. White blood cells at least have to be removed, as they are pathogenic.

2. You are not necessarily shunned. Besides, it is usually kept a secret by the elders because it is usually only done in EMERGENCIES. They want you to be SCARED and THINK you will be, because they still like to use double-standards.

If you go into the store and buy whole milk, do you know it is NOT whole milk? When you buy frozen meats and many foods in the store, they are NOT WHOLE. MacDonald's hamburgers were not mostly beef until just recently. Something is always added or taken out. Yet, WE CALL IT MEAT, MILK, LIQUOR, ETC. WITHOUT HESITATION. Are we lying???

Sometimes, but more often we just don't feel it necessary to say all the things that have been done to it. It's tedious to get down to tiny details and unnecessary.

Jehovah's Witnesses take blood. They eat it and they transfuse it. Maybe it's a little fraction, but more often it goes up to 95% of it is human blood with other things added or subtracted.

If you believe the WT's line, it just goes to show how much their mind control is still with you. Time to write a book on all the things they do like this, redefining common words and expressions in cultspeak.

I highly recommend that all of you who REALLY BELIEVE what the Watchtower says (as opposed to what they do or threaten to do) to get an exit-counseling session planned with a trained counselor. 95% of ex-Witnesses (IMO speaking from experience) have HUGE WT programming issues with language and word definitions. If you really believe their line, then you need deprogrammed. Or at LEAST stay away from the ex-Witness world, because you still think like one.

Maybe it's time to stop being a Witness and see them as needing help and not Pharisaical arguments.  And all of you know as well as I that they will never come out in print and admit ANY mistakes. NOR will they tell you you can do ANYTHING they don't like themselves. At most, it's "a matter of conscience."  In the case of blood transfusions, they are making a big deal out of it in assembly parts while at the same time telling others in the Service Dept. what to say to the hurt or dying Witness. WHY?????  LEGAL REASONS.

Think about it.

The Red Cross does not transfuse whole blood, neither do JWs. Just different particles are removed (or added).

Randy Watters

Marking

Randy, I am sure you are right about the direction the organisation are taking regarding blood. Your point that "Jehovah's Witnesses Take Blood" is a good one and needs to be repeated constantly; you are right we play their game when we let them off with their semantics.

However ....

1 - Fresh whole blood is still being transfused every day in emergency departments, including the most modern centres in the developed world.  If you are rushed to casualty (A&E, ER) having lost a lot of blood in a car crash or other accident whole blood is still the industry standard. Even Ron Lapin the best friend the borg ever had regarding bloodless surgery made this point very clear. Blood factions are used in the vast majority of treatments but it is recently donated fresh blood that will save a life in a major trauma and JWs still face this dilemma.

2 - Even if the service dept are trying to move away from the blood ban - and I agree this is likely - there is no sign of this message filtering down to r&f elders yet. If a JW accepts a trasfusion for themsleves or their child in an emergency and is honest enough to say they don't regret doing so they will still be DF'd or DA'd by the local plods will they not?

Oh, platelets.  D'oh!  Even I couldn't figure out what blood plates were!  lol

Dubs are taught that synthetic clotting factor is available and works for everyone; if the drs say otherwise it's either the demons or they just need to be educated.  I'm here to tell ya, synthetics (unfortunately) don't work for everyone.  I'm one of them.  They insist I'm wrong, the demons are influencing my thinking.

They also insist all I need to do is take vitamins and herbs.  I remember trying to get it through one dub's head here and he refused to believe this fact.  Check out posts by user jw: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/113485/1/Hemophiliacs-are-like-vampires