Worried about my friend

I have a friend who has been a JW for a couple years (baptized).  She might have to undergo gallbladder surgery.  I'm worried for her (about the blood issues)and have made that known.  I pointed her to a couple of articles on jwfacts and freeminds.  She says she is open to examining this issue (and others).  (I'm sending her my copy of Crisis of Conscience and warned her not to let others know she will be reading apostate material (she laughed and said she wouldn't get df'd for that)...so I pleaded that she not tell others for my own peace of mind then.) 

Anyway, she says she doesn't understand the intracacies surrounding the blood issue, and she wants to look at that more.  She says she ordered the WTS' DVD on the blood issue.  I don't know how convincing that material is, but she seems open to looking at other view points as well before she makes a decision.  She is a single mom and is rightfully concerned about complications. 

I've already given her and highlighted areas of inconsitencies I discovered within the WTS' position (like vaccines, organ transplants, blood fractions), and she says she wants to look at that history and review how those conclusions were made.  She concluded by saying she still believes their basic teachings are true.  I completely respect her.

I'm so thankful she is willing to discuss this with me prior to making a decision...I'm so scared for her.  I care a lot!

Please give advice...please.

You can lead a horse to water ....

You actually did quite well so far.  Don't get too much in her face, you might frighten her away from you.

Ask questions, so that she has to do the research & thinking and tell you the answers, instead of you doing most of the talking.

Good luck

Chris

Welcome to JWN,Pharmer.

Bangalore

Welcome Pharmer!

Definitely with Black Sheep on this one.

Welcome to the forum pharmer. You will find loads of current information about blood at http://www.ajwrb.org/

I hope things go well for your friend. She needs to be aware of the complexities of the organisation's stance on this life and death  issue. They are changing their views on it constantly. It is extremely unlikely anybody will get DFd for accepting blood, they are becoming too afraid of the legal risk but she needs to be discreet.

ps - she is definitely at risk of getting DFd for reading COC

The blood issue may not even come up (always best to be informed, nevertheless) if she's having Laparoscopic or 'keyhole' surgery which they can very often do on gallbladders. Wish her all the best.

Don't you find it ironic that you stand more chance of being disfellowshipped for reading a book than taking a blood transfusion? Both are ridiculous I know, but reading a book? Sheeesh!

Welcome by the way!

(Actually, AnnOmaly, my wife had this procedure a couple of years ago and the consultant said there was a quite a high risk of blood loss, even laproscopically, which surprised me)

Thank you all.  Cofty, I will check out that ajwrb.org site and send my friend a link, thanks!  Hotspur, I recentyl had watched a video (youtube) that was on freeminds, and it was a healthcare professional lecturing about this blood issue.  She spoke of a case where a gallbladder was removed via laproscopy (jw patient), and the surgeon had nicked a blood vessel that resulted in serious blood loss.  I don't doubt it is a real risk.  Thanks for the info.

It's good to inform your freind but I'm with AnnOMally on this one. Finally Awake had the same surgery and it's was all done laparoscopicly. The recovery was quick with no complications.  

I had my gall bladder out a couple of years ago. It was done by key hole surgery and is a very common operation with minimal chance that a blood transfusion is needed.

Thanks guys, I do appreciate. 

It's not the norm that scares me; it's the potential that there can be complications that worries me.  If there's any potential for complications, then it's a real possibility...probably it will be fine, but it's the potential that really scares me.  I wouldn't worry so much if blood transfusions weren't an issue.

For anyone interested, this is the link to that video:

http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2775:blood-transfusions-medically-and-scripturally-part-one&catid=19:medicine&Itemid=706

Ditto to what everyone else has said on "keyhole" surgery...I had it last year, and other than the standard consent forms, blood never really came up. If your friend is unfortunate enough to have open abdominal surgery (not typical any longer), then blood might be more of an issue. Even with open surgery, blood loss is not a major concern unless there is a complication which leads to excessive blood loss.

Welcome Pharmer!!

She will almost certainly be disfellowshipped if it is known that she is reading Crisis of Conscience. While there is always a risk with surgery, I know at least four people who have had their gall bladders removed, and everything went very smoothly. I know that is no proof that hers will go off without a hitch, but I just thought I would mention that to ease your mind. Not saying it will, but just in case..... Has she had open conversations with her surgeon to discuss the risks and possible treatments should something go wrong?

I was scheduled for gall bladder surgery several years ago but cancelled the surgery after hearing from friends/co-workers how removing it can cause problems controlling your bowels.  My mother has had that problem ever since her surgery years ago. 

There were two times when I was hurting pretty bad and ended up driving myself to the emergency room the second time.  They immediately checked to make sure I wasn't having a heart attack.  After ruling that out they left me in the ER for an hour or so.  By the time they finally took me to a room the stone had moved or whatever it does and I was fine.  They tried to give me pain meds but by then I didn't need it and ended up driving myself back home.  In that case it could have been brought on by eating too much ice cream.  That is one thing I read that will trigger the 'attacks'.

I found instructions on the internet how to flush gall stones out and it worked for me.  Since doing the flush, I have had no more problems.  If the gall bladder is seriously diseased that may not work.

Your friend may want to do more research and get a second or third opinion on whether the surgery is really necessary. 

Thank you.

@its me -- hearing accounts of others' good experiences with the surgery does help ease my mind some...I just have a tendency to worry.  It also eases my mind that she now seems willing to look at these issues.  I don't think she has met with a surgeon yet, but I'm not certain. 

She is also considering gastric bypass surgery. 

I just am thankful she says she will read Crisis of Conscience.  I'm also considering mailing her my copy of Steven Hassan's Releasing the Bonds.  Good idea or is that too much info for her to examine and digest at once?  I want to be sensitive, but...I feel a sense of urgency to provide her with the resources/material I have.

Thoughts?

Welcome!

Sounds like you're doing well.

Keep encouraging her to investigate all sides of these issues and be her friend no matter what she decides.

I have the need for some gallbladder surgery, and the way it was explained by my doc and by pictures, the organ is located in a pretty sensitive area with lots of major arteries, so something can go wrong in a hurry and blood may be needed.

The DVD about the blood issue that the WTS made, is it a fairly comphrehensive representation of their view?

Welcome ((((((((pharmer))))))) to JWN.  I suggest waiting for your friend to tell you how angry she feels after reading COC before you send her Steve Hassan's book.  It is better not to appear to threatening to her cult-persona.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert