Is my marriage worth saving?

Long story - will make it short - I was a JW for 4 years. Hy husband took to it straigt away and has been a JW for 20 years - we were both converted by one of his workmates. Our 4 kids were all baptised JWs and thankfully 3 escaped (2 disfellowshipped, one fading) - so my eldest son is still in with his dad. We were both C of E when we married 25 years ago. The marriage has had its ups and downs - some terrible, some not so bad. Neither of us has 'cheated' in the fullest sense although he emotionally cheated with a student he went to college with  3 years ago. He used to skpye her for hours into the early hours of the morning and was always emailing her - he said it was college work but it all came out in the end - and it was a case of emotional cheating. It's funny - my sister went through a similar thing with her pig of an elder husband around the same time.

Anyway, we never go anywhere, he goes to all meetings - hasn't missed one in 20 years. He is an auxiliiary pioneer - works for himself in building trade. I have a regular job - long hours - leave house 7am and get back around 8pm. I earn more than him and pay most of bills. I am a Christian (it's what has kept me sane over past 2 years) and my faith is getting stronger. He is more brainwashed by WT than ever. Sometimes we get on well but most of the time we go our own way. I have my friends, he has his. He never comes with me when I meet up with my friends. His friends (JWs) would never invite me to any of their get togethers or dinners - even though I am not DFd or DAd - just fading.   I would love to have a dinner party with both sets of friends - mine would come, his wouldn't - this is just warped, isn't it??? He never says anything to his friends when they invite him without inviting me - he just refuses to go (but he would have refused to go anyway because he is a stick-in-the -mud) but I wish he would say 'You shoud invite x too!" because it would show me he cares - he never does.

The more I think about my situation, the more sick it seems! How ridiculous not to be able to have a meal with both sets of friends. We can't even go out on Saturday or Sunday for the day because he goes out on the service - so we don't do anything together. I work long hours during the week and am free at weekends - he goes out knocking on strangers doors all weekend - good isn't it? Don't get me wrong, it isn't all bad. But we are drifting further apart.

I love him - meaning that I worry about him and wouldn't want anything to happen to him - I love him like I love my sister - i'd do anything to hellp him - but this isn't a marriage, is it? I feel angry that we can't study the Bible together - why can't we go to a non-denominational service - if you can't worship together with your partner it is very serious to me. We can't even pray together. The phone is always going for him to do jobs on the kingdom hall, jobs for the congregation, jobs for the CO - the territory, sound system, literature etc... on and on.

I know that if we could study the Bible together it would start to bring us closer (I know the atheists on here would disagree, but this is what I believe) . I know we could do things together to make use feel more like a couple, and I would do anything to change things. I have been trying for years, suggesting trips, things to do, places to go, but he is so tied up with the WT society that it all falls through and I am left feeling dead inside.

What should I do?

Sounds like you love him, but are no longer "in love" with him.

As long as he keeps going to the KH, his first "love" will always be the borg.   They are keeping too busy to think, and if he has already rejected your prior suggestions then I can't see him changing.

If you feel like playing second fiddle for the rest of your life, stay with him.  If not...well then you know what to do.

How do your DF'd children get along with him?  For me....how he treats my children would be my deciding factor.  You may be different.  I couldn't tolerate a man that shunned his own children.

How do you manage not to get disfellowshipped if you attend church?

Tell him the gist of what you just wrote.  Make sure it's at a time when neither of you are tired or cranky. 

Then ask if he's willing to talk to a marriage counselor.  (Not JW elders either.)

Just a thought.

om

Sacdfan,

I've sent you a PM in reponse to your post.

  SACDFAN- I'm so sorry your marriage has deteriorated to the position it is in and the position you find yourself at presently. You asked our opinions - I will give you mine and I'll cut to the chase trying not to be blunt , yet I''ll be straightforward and honest with you. Experienced this myself in a 19 yr. marriage to a JW - divorced in 1998.

  You ask : " Is my marriage worth saving ? " From how you have described it- I would say no, it's not. Basically most of us may live 70 - 80 years if we have good health. If we are very lucky we may reach 90 or 100. You have already spent a quarter of a century with a man who values his position and love affair with a high control organization Jehovah's Witnesses. THAT is what he values - not his wife. If he did he would put you first on his list of priorities .

  You stated, " I love him like my sister " . And partly therein lies your answer in what you need to do. If you do not love this man as a married people normally love each other and he devalues you- then you need to value yourself more and be with a man or someone else who will build up your value and self esteem.  This man you've been with has been trained in an organization to devalue women and children. It's a patriarchal organization. You stated "  I know that if we studied the Bible together it would start to bring us closer ".  Well, not really. YOU would be studying the Bible, HE would be studying the WT society's interpretation of the Bible which for men  involves domination of one's wife and holding them under submission and control like men do in the Middle East. I feel you both STILL would not be operating in harmony.

  If he has been disrespectful of your viewpoints for this long - I would say it's time to stop beating a dead horse. Bring up your differences to him and ask him to go to a professional marriage counselor for therapy together. If he answers " no " - then you have your answer as to what you should do. Unless you are into being unhappy the rest of your life , I advise a change. It seems you have 3 of 4 adult children out of the Witnesses and I'm sure they'd be very supportive to you and would be your advocates and show loving support to you.

  I wish you the best my friend. I know it's tough, but you need to do what's best for you physically, mentally, and emotionally. Otherwise your life may go downhill in some of those areas . Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

Thamks for your replies.

LostGeneration - you hit the nail on the head - love him but not 'in-love'

Journey-on - he treats my kids the same - disfellowshiped or not - they are still wecome at our house. He has odd ways - he is totally 'in it' in some ways but likes to do him own thing in other waays. He would never hebave differently to the kids because he knows that would be the nail in the coffin and I'd leave because they are my life. I wonder what he would be like if I wasn't here - it sometimes crosses my mind.

Slimboyfat - I have said the most outrageous things to elders and still haven't been DFd. They know me well and know I have a BIG mouth and would seek legal advice, ask to bring a solicitor along - I'd do my research into current laws. I also have lots of contacts in the press and I think they are a little wary of me. They also fear that being hard on me could backfire and they could lose my husband - he is so useful to them! I know I said he is totally brainwashed, but he wouldn't want me disfellowshipped. Personally I couldn't give a damn - the elders know that - they know I will kick up a stink, go to all the local papers, start spouting my human rights, threaten them with bad publicity, and I have quite a bit of dirt on a couple of elders and servants and 'd like to cause them as much trouble as they caused one of my sons when he was disfellowshipped. Just the threat of a scandal keeps them in their place!

Open mind - the only councellors he would go to are the elders - nobody else - we have been through this many times :(

Thanks Ding - checking message now.

Flipper,

I always read your posts - thanks for this I understand what you mean - it does seem he is putting an organisation before me, but that's because they leave him no time to spend any of his precious time with me. When can we squeeze it in? He works as a self-employed builder, I work full time in a really stressful job. The WT has arranged it so that divided homes will always be just that - divided. When do we have any time to do anything together? He won't even miss the ministry session at the weekend to go somewhere. I'd have to kick up a huge fuss, scream and shout, throw things about, give him the silent treatment - and then he might miss one Saturday once in a blue moon. But why should I have to go through all this just to get him to spend 4 hours with me on a Saturday once a quarter?

I understand.

You are waiting.

Waiting for him act like the guy you married.

Waiting for him to value you and yall's marriage.

Waiting for him to act as Head of Household and your protector.

Waiting for him to behave like the good Dubbie/Christian he professes to be.

Waiting

Waiting

Waiting

In this time of waiting however he has abandoned you on many levels even so far as to have an emotional affair. Was this an emotional affair one of the heart or one of distraction? Well he didn't file for divorce and run off with her so it is safe to assume he was using her as a distraction from dealing with his situation with you. That is WEAKNESS.

Millions of Dubbie and Non-Dubbie men manage to balance their lives and still have time for their wives. (Stick in the mud = just don't care to put the effort or make the priority)

I read your comments about a non-romantic love for him but your other comments betray your feelings of hurt by being rejected/  abandoned by him. Reading the Bible together means you want to rebond your connection with each other, not of a woman looking for justification to leave.

You still are in love with him on some level (probably that bright-eyed girl from 25 years ago still seeing the man who captured her heart). However the mature woman who is desperately trying to find reason and demanding validity is screaming at the top of her lungs inside of you.

Its over, it was over the minute he decided to stop valuing/loving you as his life partner. (Again weakness because he didn't own his decision/choice openly and honestly and doing the honorable thing and leaving you so that you could move forward with your life and closure)

This has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do, it is all on him.

Take time to grieve.

Console the younger voice that has longingly pined away for him for YEARS.

Take strength in the mature voice that whispers 'You are wothhy, You are an Amazing Person, You deserve to be in a relationship that not only allows for you to give all that love you have to share but receives the same in return from a man who thinks you are his lil piece of paradise on Earth!'........

Take time to plan, gather your resources.....leave on even footing so that you don't have to look back.

Sometimes it is through loss and heartbreak that we discover inner strength, beauty, freedom and happiness that can only be found with new experiences of a new life.

He is a coward unworthy of your love.

Huggles and Love my Sister

My wife was so glad when I was removed as an elder.  I definitely had no time for her or family.  Though the WTS stated that family comes before the cong, it actually did not.  Losing the position in the organization was the best for me, though I did not see it at first.  Now I spend time on the weekends with my family instead of the field ministry and shepherding calls.

I feel for you and your situation.  As long as your husband is an elder, you will come after the cong.

Sacdfan,

My heart aches for you, as you and I are in the same place.  Only difference is I am maried 45 years and within the last three years and I have found out things about my mate to prove that I have no place in his life.  I walked out of the KH in 1984 and never went back.  Hubby was removed as a elder because of his actions.  He left the family put us on welfare and almost lost my home.  He returned 9 month later to forgive and forget.  He never forgave me on the inside, but acted out the action on the outside.  7 years ago I found out that he never put my name back of the savings account.  Reason he does not trust me, second reason he claims he forgot to put me back on the account.  Talks out of both sides of his mouth.  He had to put me back on the account in order to get a loan for a car.  That was in 2003.  Even though the account is in my name I have no idea what he has in savings or checking.  Mind you I have worked outside the home for over 27 years and I still work part time because I cannot make ends meet on my small Social Security check.  I have to buy all the food for the house, pay all of my deductibles, optical, medicine and clothing.    3 years ago I found his Patient Advocate form and my name is not on it.  I knew nothing about this form and would like to see if anyone knows when this form was created.  He told me he didn't trust me and that he knows my heart.   No trust no marriage.  I moved my clothing and personal items out of the bedroom and now I sleep in the basement.  Funny thing is the elders know how I live and they have never said a word to him.  If I had known how he felt about me years ago I would have gladly left him.  I have told him to file for divorce and he won't even answer.  He never misses a meeting, field service, April Pioneering and makes sure he give his contribution to the hall every month.  They get more from him than I do and he is what you call a triiple dipper,  Pension, Social Security and a job.  At 65 its hard.

Gosh Yknot - when did you get to be so wise? It's as if you were looking right inside my head.

You are right - I will be in exactly the same position this time next year or the year after - still waiting for him to say "I've arranged a trip away - just you and me, so we can talk away from the family," but it never happens - and I know deep down it never will.

As for the emotional affair, if it wasn't for the fact I was suspicious and read his skype messages, it would still have carried on - in other words he didn't stop because he realised he was being disloyal to me - it stopped because he got found out and I stopped it - and that hurt. Had he stopped it himself it woud have meant so much to me, but he didn't. He had skyped her that he could discuss things with her that he couldn't with me. On one of his messages he signed off 'You are my best friend' and that was like a knife. But I was also dealing with a load of other stuff with my sister and spookily enough it was a similar type of thing, but this involved a pioneer sister and my bil. The emailing and phoning/skyping with my husband and college girls carried on for months and each time he promised that it was finished, and the elders came round, gave him a slap on the wrist, and it carried on a shprt while until I threatened to leave. He told me I was getting things out of proportion and she was just doing the same course as he was! They are still doing the same course now (4-year part-time degree course) so he still sees her twice a week - he says they barely talk - how do I know this? It still eats away at me. My sister has completely forgiven her dope of a husband even though things had gone quite 'far' with him and pioneer lady. I have no idea why she wasn't DFd or at least marked - but no! No justice as usual

Anyway, I do love him, but not enough to want to spend the rest of my life with him. I will always make sure he is ok money-wise - I'd never let him want for anything and I'll always be here to help him - basically he is a good man but is just braanwashed and can't see it. I pray one day he will come out and realise I was right about this organisation. I don't want another relationship with another man - never again - I never looked as another man - I always remembers Job's words about making a covenant with your eyes - fat lot of good it did me. Basically I just want peace of mind - I feel I am going insane!

Thanks for caring.  And sorry to ramble on and on....

tif21,

I am so sorry for your situation - I wish I could give you a hug. I really hurt inside too - in fact, since writing this post, it has made me realise how hurt I still am by his dalliances with miss college knickers - I don't even know what she looks like - but all the feelings are flooding back - and it's mainly the fact he wouldn't have stopped had I not found out - that's what hurts the most - because what would have happened had I not stopped it? Who knows? I don't even know, hand on heart, how far things went. He is supposed to be the 'Christian', the head of the household, caring fo me - what a laugh.

Is there anywhere you can go - friends, family - anywhere at all. what a scumbag to treat you like this - and you can bet the elders are all over him because, like my scumbag, he is ticking all the right boxes - meeting attendance, field service, contributions etc etc - what a croc of *h*t!! I will pray for you and hope you find somewhere safe to live - you deserve so much better.

straightshooter - you are correct - my sons tells me the same thing - it's the WT org first, elders second, bros and Sis third, and me fourth (at a pinch)

Sacdfan,

I've sent you a couple more PMs in response to the one you sent me.

Dump the piece of shit. I take it your kids are out of the house by now? I would simply say: this isn't working anymore and leave his behind. There are plenty of fish in the sea. I personally no longer believe in long-term relationships if you are feeling miserable in them.

His primary concern is da troof and there is nothing you'll be able to do about it. He's lying, cheating, a true JW spouse (trust me, I've had 2) but whenever you do something wrong you end up talking to the elders about it. You're too good for him and I've made the same mistakes, I overstayed, tried to fix things, as long as you're out of the JW, you're out of any JW member's love. Same happened with my spouse, I told her I wanted to stop going to the KH, the next thing she was packing up her stuff and kidnapped my child.

The only reason he's not letting the elders know about you is because he himself wants to maintain his position (being exemplary) and he's lying to them about it as well. ALL men in a JW position do that I've noticed. I've been protected from DF/DA because of someone else's position.

okay so let me get this straight.....

You earn more, pay majority of the bills...

He been working toward degree for 3 yrs......almost graduating

Seeing girl on campus....

OH HELLLZ NO!

The evidence is there if you look for it..... GET TO A LAWYER STAT!!!!

(curious is she studying with a JW?...... have you verified those ' dubbie-jobs for kh, co, territory'  cuz they perfect cover for unfaithfulness )

Sacdfan,

Thanks for your reply.  Can I ask if your name is on your husbands patient advocate form?  I will leave when my elderly parent who lives with me passes.  I have asked her if she would go with me and she said this is my home.  I know that if I take her out of this house she would die of a broken heart she will be 90 years old this year and is not in good health. 

You are young and can make a life for yourself.  It's hard to live everyday knowing that you are not really a marriage mate.  This religion is a joke and teaches hate.  Don't let your husband use you like I continue to be used.  It's hard to live with someone who does not trust you and treats you like shit.  I have asked him more than once for a divorce, but if that were to happen he would loose his priviledges in the org.  So the hell he has created for me to live in is the same hell he lives in.  I don't know how these men can go to meetings and door to door knowing how we are treated.  They are Brain Dead.

Anonymous - good point about him wanting to mantain his position - I have no idea what he tells elders about me. I am also certain that the women (I don't call them sisters - they're not my sisters) in the k hall gossip about me because I get some funny looks when they pass me.

Yknot - he had to go to college to retrain as there wasn't a lot of work in the building field when the rot set into property and construction - as long as the evening classes didn't interfere with meetings the elders were ok with it- and little miss college student isn't a JW but he tried to get her to have a study, apparently. They still see each other every Monday and Wednesday evening at college. I'm not reliant on him financially - but I wouldn't leave him in the lurch - I'd always help out with bills etc even if we weren't together - I can't be petty like that. I still think we can salvage things as long as he stops listening to the WT and listens to me.

tif21- I am so sorry - my heart aches for you. You took the words out of my mouth - how can people go door to door telling people how to live, how to have happy families, how to be honest, how to follow Jesus closely - it makes me sick - total hypocrisy - don't they ever think that this is laughable? How can a person who treats his/her partner like a piece of rubbish trot out to service handing out family books with a smile - they certainly are brain dead- complete and total robots!