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Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated

    Dogpatch Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sat, 24 Dec 2011 22:34:00 GMT (12/24/2011) edit


    United States California

    Post 3517 of 3813
    Since 12/26/2000

    Check out http://youtu.be/_RTL0g851ic

     

    This is also at the Freeminds channel at:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/freeminds?feature=guide

    and so feel free to comment and express your views of Ayn Rand!

    Tell Zen he's a fuddy-duddy.

     

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - give your views posted Sat, 24 Dec 2011 23:34:00 GMT (12/24/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11975 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    There are ways to examine a controversial figure without poisoning a discussion ahead of time.  One legitimate way of doing this is to

    take one quote at a time and dismantle it as to "why"you disagree.

    But, simply sneering and bad-mouthing is mere opinionating with bad manners thrown in!

    A slipshod (and intellectually dishonest) way of dissing something is to cut and paste critics only.  After all, who really CARES if you like or hate

    something unless you're able to create a well-reasoned and factual rebuttal?

     

    This fellow ZEN apparently has not actually READ what he dismisses. He's done zero research. He can't even pronounce Ayn Rand correctly.

    In his rush to judgement he doesn't allow Ayn Rand to speak for herself because he is busy building a Straw Man substitute for what Rand approves and disapproves.

    Cheap shots do not an argument make.

    The Conservatives of her era were as put off by her as the Liberals because she called them out with surgical precision.  Willam F. Buckley, a deeply religious Catholic, was offended by Rand's atheism.  He never addressed her philosophy with honesty because of this. Privately, he was friendly with her and fascinated by her views.

    Rand was Russian and had to teach herself English the hard way. Like Vladimir Nabokov and Joseph Conrad (non-native writers), she used the English language with great success; otherwise why would her books remain bestsellers half a century after their debut?

    Essentially, Rand invented a way of communicating philosophy using fiction as the delivery system of ideas. Who before her did this and as well?

     

    I liked the Fountainhead as a novel. I could not get the hang of Atlas Shrugged, so, I switched to the books-on-tape version and made it through.

    My personal preference is for the straight philosophy books.   Her ideas are like perfectly cut diamonds.

    I would suggest anybody wishing to get an honest glimpse into the wonders of her mind, TRY THIS: 

    Wide-ranging “Playboy” interview now online

    On its website Playboy has posted its Interview with Ayn RAnd.  In the interview, Rand discusses her work and some of the practical implications of her ideas. The frank, wide-ranging conversation is particularly notable for its breadth.

    Among the topics covered: guilt, original sin, emotions, motherhood, religion, morality, romantic love, sex, hedonism, promiscuity, charity, compassion, literature, government, free will, foreign policy, nuclear treaties, politicians and others.

    Rand’s words, as they so often do, resonate as if they were spoken yesterday.

    http://www.ellensplace.net/ar_pboy.html

     

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sat, 24 Dec 2011 23:41:00 GMT (12/24/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11976 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    About Ayn Rand

    1. Where can I find out about Ayn Rand’s life?
    2. Where and when was Ayn Rand born?
    3. How do you pronounce “Ayn”?
    4. What is the origin of “Rand”?
    5. Did Ayn Rand have any children?
    6. Of what did Ayn Rand die? Where is she buried?
    7. What university did Ayn Rand attend and what subject did she study?
    8. Did Ayn Rand have any siblings?
    9. For which film studios did Ayn Rand work?

    About Ayn Rand’s Writings

    1. Where can I read about Ayn Rand’s view on . . .?
    2. Can I purchase recordings of lectures by Ayn Rand and other ARI speakers?
    3. How can I find out more about Ayn Rand’s intellectual and artistic development?
    4. I would like to perform Miss Rand’s play Night of January 16th. To whom should I write?
    5. Where do I send a request for permission to reprint an article or essay by Miss Rand?
    6. Where can I find foreign editions of Miss Rand’s books?
    7. Is Howard Roark based on Frank Lloyd Wright?
    8. In Atlas Shrugged a number of major events occur on September 2. What significance, if any, did this date have in Miss Rand’s life?
    9. Have any of Miss Rand’s novels been made into movies?
    10. I’m a teacher. May I reproduce one of Ayn Rand’s essays for my class?
    Band on the Run Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 01:34:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 3589 of 5381
    Since 12/18/2010

    wikipedia for a start. Google.

    littlerockguy Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 01:47:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 2325 of 2425
    Since 4/8/2005

     

    Youtube also has clips of interviews when she appeared on talk shows before she died.

    Berengaria Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 01:52:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 3405 of 4939
    Since 1/25/2010

    How incredibly sad

    EntirelyPossible Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 05:35:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 1369 of 2124
    Since 3/20/2011

    Ayn Rand preached self interest, greed, against social programs. She had affairs with married men and eventually died with almost all of her followers gone, using the same social programs she preached against to get the medical case she needed.

    Fark her.

    metatron Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:42:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 5963 of 6219
    Since 4/7/2001

    I enjoyed Ayn Rand's writings in the same way I might enjoy a fifth of bad vodka or a porn movie.  Enjoyable, but not good for you.

    OTOH, some of her ideas are needed today with regard to the US drifting into a mass loss of freedom.

    metatron

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:12:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11977 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    Rand on Christmas and GREED:

    The charming aspect of Christmas is the fact that it expresses good will in a cheerful, happy, benevolent, non-sacrificial way. One says: “Merry Christmas”—not “Weep and Repent.” And the good will is expressed in a material, earthly form—by giving presents to one’s friends, or by sending them cards in token of remembrance . . . .

    The best aspect of Christmas is the aspect usually decried by the mystics: the fact that Christmas has been commercialized. The gift-buying . . . stimulates an enormous outpouring of ingenuity in the creation of products devoted to a single purpose: to give men pleasure. And the street decorations put up by department stores and other institutions—the Christmas trees, the winking lights, the glittering colors—provide the city with a spectacular display, which only “commercial greed” could afford to give us. One would have to be terribly depressed to resist the wonderful gaiety of that spectacle.

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:13:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11978 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    Ayn Rand on SELF INTEREST:

    When one speaks of man’s right to exist for his own sake, for his own rational self-interest, most people assume automatically that this means his right to sacrifice others. Such an assumption is a confession of their own belief that to injure, enslave, rob or murder others is in man’s self-interest—which he must selflessly renounce. The idea that man’s self-interest can be served only by a non-sacrificial relationship with others has never occurred to those humanitarian apostles of unselfishness, who proclaim their desire to achieve the brotherhood of men. And it will not occur to them, or to anyone, so long as the concept “rational” is omitted from the context of “values,” “desires,” “self-interest” and ethics.

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:13:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11979 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    Being able to think for yourself and question authority would have kept all of us out of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Room 215 Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:15:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 2614 of 2719
    Since 4/16/2001

    One man's opinion:  I reserved judgment on her as a human being; but IMHO, her "masterpiece"  Atlas Shrugged is one of the most overwrought, overwritten and overrated novels ever.  It seldom -- if ever -- rises above the level of a Saturday-Matinee-at the-movies serial. 

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:28:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11980 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    According to a survey done for the Library of Congress and the Book of the Month Club, Atlas Shrugged was situated between The Bible and M. Scott Peck's The Road Less Traveled as the book that made the most difference in the lives of 5,000 Book-of-the-Month club members surveyed, with "A large gap existing between the #1 book and the rest of the list".[49]Modern Library's 1998 nonscientific online poll of the 100 best novels of the 20th century[50][51] found Atlas rated #1 although it was not included on the list chosen by the Modern Library board of authors and scholars.[52]

    SixofNine Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:46:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    Djibouti

    Post 15814 of 16123
    Since 12/17/2000

    Being able to think for yourself and question authority would have kept all of us out of Jehovah's Witnesses.

     

    This is true, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  

    DaCheech Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 16:04:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    Turkey

    Post 5624 of 6114
    Since 5/13/2004

    Irrelevant to the only person here who seems to know anything real about Ayn Rand?

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 16:45:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11981 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    From: 50 BOOKS that will change your life:

    botchtowersociety Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 16:55:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 3065 of 5439
    Since 4/26/2011

    Zen basically says Rand is a worthless writer and gives reasons why she is not "deserving" (I am not sure what he means by that, or if he even understands Rand's philosophy). Not to defend her writing style, or the length of her book, but this is a very subjective opinion.

    Objectively, her books have sold many millions of copies, with over 700,000 in 2009 alone. It is one of the best selling books, even today.

    Not bad for a 54 year old book.

    http://www.englishcompanion.com/Readings/booklists/loclist.html

     

    Respondents to the Survey of Lifetime Reading Habits, conducted [fall 1991] for the Book-of-the-Month Club and the Library of Congress' Center for the Book, cited the following when asked to name a book that had made a difference in their lives:

    1. The Bible**
    2. Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand
    3. The Road Less Traveled, by M. Scott Peck
    4. To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee
    5. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien
    6. Gone With the Wind, by Margaret Mitchell
    7. How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie
    8. The Book of Mormon
    9. (Five titles were tied for the next place):
      • The Feminine Mystique, by Betty Friedan
      • A Gift from the Sea, by Anne Morrow Lindbergh
      • Man's Search for Meaning, by Victor Frankl
      • Passages, by Gail Sheehy
      • When Bad Things Happen to Good People, by Harold S. Kushner

    ** A large gap exists between the #1 book and the rest of the list.

     

    25 BOOKS THAT HAVE SHAPED READERS' LIVES

    1. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain
    2. Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand
    3. The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin
    4. The Autobiography of Malcolm X
    5. The Bible
    6. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger
    7. Charlotte's Web, by E.B. White
    8. The Diary of a Young Girl, by Anne Frank
    9. Don Quixote, by Miguel de Cervantes
    10. Gone With the Wind, by Margaret Mitchell
    11. Hiroshima, by John Hersey
    12. How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie
    13. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, by Maya Angelou
    14. Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison
    15. The Little Prince, by Antoine de Saint Exupery
    16. Little Women, by Louisa May Alcott
    17. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien
    18. Roots, by Alex Haley
    19. The Secret Garden, by Frances Hodgson Burnett
    20. To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee
    21. Treasure Island, by Robert Louis Stevenson
    22. Walden, by Henry David Thoreau
    23. War and Peace, by Leo Tolstoy
    24. What Color is Your Parachute?, by Richard Nelson Bolles
    25. The Wizard of Oz, by L. Frank Baum

     

     

    DaCheech Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 17:14:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    Turkey

    Post 5625 of 6114
    Since 5/13/2004

    Had no Idea who she was, until Buzzy and friends started a stupid thread the other day.

    thanks buzzy

    Terry Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 18:18:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit


    United States Texas

    Post 11983 of 12773
    Since 6/19/2004

    When people start "warning" you about how bad somebody or something is and putting out a big shotgun blast of negatives the red flags should come flying out!

    Bad ideas are not something to warn against and condemn. You fight Bad Ideas with Good ideas. Intelligent people really can tell the difference.

    However...

    When criticism doesn't even DEAL with ideas at all....that really says something important...........about the critic!

    The critic who has no ideas must resort to attacks on THE PERSON (Ad Hominem) rather than deal with the merits of a real argument.

     

    An example we are all familiar with is how the Governing Body shuts down criticism from former members.  The merits of the accusations are completely swept aside by changing the subject to Ad Hominem name-calling (Apostates) (mentally diseased) and fearful warnings to avoid them at all costs.

    This is intellectual surrender!  You mean if you have THE TRUTH it cannot defeat lies?

     

    Anyway....

    I think the best thing Ayn Rand's philosophy has going for it is that it makes individual persons IMPORTANT as individuals rather than ONLY important when propping up a GROUP's values.  

    I've been a small cog in a large group. How did that work out for me?  Badly!  When I needed help they labelled me and kicked me out without spending a moment's time loving me.  This after 20 years of service!

    I no longer accept that we only have value when we are "giving it all" for the GROUP!

    By golly, I'M IMPORTANT enough that when I do things to better my life I'm spending my time wisely.  Then, and only then, do I really have something to GIVE to others----and on MY terms; not theirs.

    Glander Re: Zen's Rant on Ayn Rand - intelligent responses appreciated posted Sun, 25 Dec 2011 18:29:00 GMT (12/25/2011) edit




    Post 814 of 1296
    Since 9/30/2010

    Great thread, Dogpatch. Terry, your opening statement sums up the typical Rand hater and their completely non-intellectual response to her writings. (Several posters above completely proved your point.)

     

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